April / May 2004
April
Subject:
Ferguson Concussed ?
Bob,
Just found your site and it brought back so many
memories.
I went to the little primary school next to Upton
Park during the sixties and remember the south bank
being demolished and being rebuilt making our
playground a bit smaller. I know its been built
again since. On the other side of the road
(Castle Street) a new building went up and became the
supporters club.
During '64 I was loafing around the Gate that
seperated our other playground (sometimes used as a
coachpark) from the WHU office entrance when the
whole squad came out for a photograph...the
photographer handed me a big cup to hold momentarily
while he sorted the claret and blue ribbons that were
tied to the handles. Something a 10 year-old
doesn't forget, ever.
Then there was senior school....the comprehensive
adjoining the Northbank. What hope did I have
of not supporting them? My mates and I would
often spot our heros comming and going. It was
great. Saw Alf Garnet once too.
Evening classes at Technical College was a bit
further away, opposite the town hall...but had the
bonus of free half-time entry to a few midweek
matches.
I'm certain I saw Bobby
Ferguson
(my absolute hero after Trevor
Brooking)
clash with a post and then after standing on the
goalline facing the stand (Northbank) be taken off
very confused. Now I can't remember who this
match was against....it was either Stockport
(shockport in the papers later) or Stoke (with Banks at the other end) and I
think it was a replay. Anyway, I then saw
Mr Moore pulling on the
green....unbelievable. Even more so when a penalty
was given ...I thought he saved it and didn't see
what happened next because the place had erupted, the
rebound was planted, but Moore was still the
hero.
Now the mists of time may have played tricks on the
old memory but that's what I think I remember.
Can you confirm or rubbish it?
Do you remember a very fast little player called
John(ny) Ayris (West
Ham United)?
??? He teamed up with Brooking and for a while
they were an unbeatable midfield. I remember Chopper
Harris
tackling him on the left wing (coming towards the
Northbank) and he was stretchered off... I've got a
horrible feeling that was the end of his
career? Am I wrong?
Well guess I'd better go to bed now....
Cheers
Bill
Well a quick look
in a West Ham history shows it was Stoke City. Terry
Conroy (Stoke City)'s tackle concussed Bobby Ferguson and
Bobby Moore went in goal after Clyde
Best, the
nominated deputy turned it down. Mike Bernard
(Stoke City)'s penalty was saved, like you say, but
they got the rebound. It was the League Cup semi-final
2nd replay, which Stoke won 3-2, then went on to get the
Cup v Chelsea. It was played on 26 January 1972 at Old
Trafford.
I can't confirm the Ayris story, but I see that he had
played all 8 games up to the Chelsea match in the 1971-72
season, he was substituted that match, and after a spell
of no games, only played 6 more times that season - was
that the game do you think ?
Subject:
Memories
Are you
still running this site? (Yes ! - Bob)
There are a lot of old farts out here who need this
this stuff on the late sixties early 70's.
More
contributions and memories need to be shared if this
most golden of era is not to be forgotten.
Premiership, my backside......
Pip pip
Neil
Meadows
Well as a
Leeds United fan about to wave goodbye to the
Premiership, I couldn't agree more !
Many
thanks for taking the time to reply. I really enjoyed
the site and admit to shedding a tear or two when
discovering that players had died far too soon (Terry
Hibbitt - Leeds United - for one; how
sad).
Without
getting into a rant about the present and imagining
some idealised past that never existed, I don't think
I'm wrong in saying that the Murdoch/Sky era has been
the greatest betrayal of English football ever.
That's not to say that many of the foreign imports
aren't wonderful talents but far too many are just
filling the place that should be taken by a
home-grown lad.
When
you think that of the holy trinity, (the Evertonian
one), Harvey only got one match (against Malta, in
Malta for heaven's sake) and Kendall was never called
up. What would that over-paid Swede make of such
resources today? And therein lies the rub.
I
see that Channel 4 is advertising its greatest
England ever, and the recent heroes are the names
that those used to trumpet the piece. Our game was
not invented by television but it wants us to believe
that it did and so dismiss the past.
Of
course you can't recover the past (and in many
respects we could be grateful for that), but we don't
have to pretend that it never existed. Otherwise
Shearer will go down as the greatest centre forward
ever and William Ralph's 60 goals in a season will be
just the feat of what is merely the second division.
My
wife assumes a weary, yet indulgent expression when I
try to explain all this and who can blame here. Sorry
if I've blathered on a bit, but as I said your site
is an important element for stemming this tide of
revisionism.
Kind regards
Neil
Well I'm a
Leeds United fan, I am well versed it what happens to a
club, when business men think they can run a club, even
ones who claimed to be football fans. For my own part I
find myself more and more interested in the Leagues
outside of the Premiership away from the soap opera
lives and overpaid also-rans that make up the top
League.
You ask
many Leeds fans and of course we want to stay up to win
the trophys, but many (and a large many) say - well
I had more fun as a fan when we were in Division 2 !
I agree
about the foreign 'talent'. Leeds United showed that they
were better playing 2-3 local academy lads ahead of more
established imports who lacked passion or desire for the
club. For a place like Leeds the club represents the
City, so when none of the players come from the area,
fans find it hard to engage with the players.
The clubs
biggest heroes aren't necessarily from Leeds, but they
have been 'adopted' by Leeds - the city, such that you
cannot believe they were born elsewhere. Bremner,
Charles, Strachen all became honoury Tykes. Radebe is an
example of how a forgein player can still do this, but at
the start of the season when the whole team was filled
with nobodys from France, suddenly the crowd was calling
for David Batty, and Alan Smith rose to superstar status
! I could see why.
And the
real heroes in Leeds are still the Revie era players
rather than the '92 Champions, because all the Revie
players played 500 games or more for the club, there was
a loyalty to the club itself, which is sadly lacking in
today's top flight football. Could you imagine a
modern time Mick Bates (Leeds
United) ?
That said
I still take my son, football is still football whatever
it's like, but telling the stories of the previous eras
is so important for the sense of the club being more than
the sum of its business men. And when they all go away to
do something else to make money, football will still be
being played without them, it doesn't need them really.
My son
does know the phrase 'Clarke 1-0', at least he'll keep
the past present !
Mind you,
Shearer's not half bad !!!! My
wife nods and says 'yes Bob', then adds, 'you need to be
saying this to someone who's interested', it's a running
joke between us.
Dear
Bob
I just had to add this:
And
we play all the way for Leeds United
Elland
Road is the only place for use
The only decent football song since Back Home.
You could have added Bobby Collins without whom would
there ever have been a Revie era? And Everton had
decided he was too old..... I think it is a real
shame what has happened at Leeds; what was the board
thinking?
You're quite right about Shearer, I saw him as kid at
Southampton. Not many 17 year olds (not even the
current boy wonder) can claim to have scored a
hat-trick on their debut against Arsenal.
By
the way, having lived for many years in South Africa
I have always followed their expats in the game.
Radebe is rightly worth a mention but I was moved to
think of poor Albert Johannson. It's arguably not
appreciated here how the Coloureds (an ethic racial
group of its own under Apartheid) were isolated from
both black and white communities into some kind of
racial limbo. The way that the club and all of you
recognised his plight is to your collective undying
credit. His tragedy represented that of many
others.
Best
wishes
Neil
Of course it is
actually the b-side 'Marching On Together' that is played
and sung at the ground every week ! Albert Johannson,
just just just before my time for recalling first hand,
but it is a very sad story I agree. The passages about
him in Eddie Gray's book are very moving.
Subject: Souvenir
Hello
Sir, my name is Werner Lührs from Mainz in Germany.
I am City supporter of Manchester for years.
Is there anywhere to order a souvenir, as well as a
team-photo ?
Greeting and good luck in the Championship.
Try Phil
Noble's site www.mancityprogrammes.co.uk it is a great site, for
City souvenirs
Subject:
Olympic Games of 1960
Can you
tell me how was the second goalkepper of England
Olympic Games of 1960 ?
Eduardo
Mendoza Barradas
Such a simple
question... It took me ages to get the answer, but it was
fun doing it. First off here was the squad
UK squad 1960
Mike Pinner - Queen's Park Rangers (England)
T. Thompson - Stockton
DD Holt - Queen's Park (Scotland)
R.McKinven - St Johnstone
L. Brown - Bishop Auckland
R.W.Sleap - Barnet
R. Brown - Barnet
PJ Hasty - Tooting and Mitcham
HM Lindsay - Kingstonian
JH Devine - Queen's Park
W Neil - Airdrie
MM Greenwood - Bishop Auckland
H Forde - Glenavon
T Howard - Hendon
JB Wakefield - Corinthian Casuals
A Coates - Evenwood Town
HH Barr - Ballymena United
Les G Brown - Dulwich Hamlet
Jim Lewis - Walthamstow Avenue
Of these, the
following didn't play so one of them had to be the
2nd goalie....
T Howard
JB Wakefield
A Coates
HH Barr
LG Brown
T Howard was a forward in the Hendon side that won
the 1960 Amateur Cup
HH Barr was an Inside forward at Coventry
City in 1962
I found a picture of L Brown in 1959, and he was not
a goalie
So that left me with ...
JB Wakefield
A Coates
Next I wrote to
Corinthian Casuals to see if they knew of JB
Wakefield....
Subject: RE: Corinthian
Casuals - JB Wakefied
Hi,
I know him very well, he
was the reserve goal keeper at the 1960 Olympics and
he lost his place in the Casuals to Swannell as a
result. He stayed at the club for part of 1960/61
before playing for Pegasus and then Kingstonian. He
is now the club secretary.
Hope this helps
Regards
Rob Cavallini
How about that ! Rob's website
is at Corinthian Casuals Football Club. Rob has also given me lots of 70-71
information for the club, which I hope to add to the site
in due course.
I wrote back to Eduardo with the
answer, and he replied...
Very many thanks for
your answer.
Can you tell me how was the second goalkeeper of
Northern Ireland in the European Championship 1964 vs
spain (1/8) ?
! ? So it's back to the drawing
board... Does anyone know, by the way, I'm not sure where
to look for this one.
Subject: Can you
answer this ?
There are apparantly five English football clubs
whohave all been managed by three separate European
Cup winning players. Can you help ?
Graham
Well I got:-
Blackburn Rovers - Graeme
Souness, Kenny Dalglish and Brian Kidd.
Man City - Kevin Keegan, Frank Clark and Billy
McNeill
Newcastle U - RuudGullit, Kevin Keegan, and Kenny
Dalglish.
Preston North End - Bobby Charlton, Nobby Stiles and
Brian Kidd
The other team is
Wigan Athletic.. Bobby Charlton, Larry LLoyd, Kenny
Swain.
Thanks for taking
the time, the question certainly did our heads in
yesterday. Actually we discovered Man City had a
fourth with same credentials, Phil Neal. He only took
on the job temporarily.
Thanks Graham
Great stuff, thanks
Subject: Ian Walker
Hi there Bob,
Could you possibly help me please?
I am trying to find out what Suzy Walkers (Ian Walker
of Leicester City) maiden name is. Can you help?
It is for a competition, and everyone I have asked
doesn't seem to know. Even the internet, I've
not had any luck with.
I would be very
grateful if you could help.
Regards
Catherine
Well it is probably too late for
Catherine's competition now, but does anyone know ???
Subject:
Jimmy Greaves
I would like to know what number shirt did Jimmy
Greaves wear
for England ?
A Kolb
Jimmy wore
the number 8 shirt for England 51 times and the number 10
shirt 6 times.
Subject:
Alan Ball
Bob,
We have been having a discussion.....!!!!, mainly
about players (of inferior height) with talent.
Namely: -
* Nobby Stiles 5ft 6"
* S. Wright Philips 5ft 6" (looks shorter)
* Alan Ball ???????????????????
Any idea on Mr Ball's height???
Regards
Discussion Settler
'World of Soccer
Stars' reports Alan's height as 5 foot 7 inches.
I saw Shaun Wright-Phillips at Elland Road the other
week, I agree in real life he does look shorter than 5'
6''. As it happens that's my height, too, shame I didn't
share his talent, he really is good.
May
Here's an exchange
of emails with Scott Dailly...
Subject:
Pub question
Hi Bob
Who managed hibs from 1968 to 1972 ?
Thanks for your help in this delicate footballing
matter.
Scott Dailly
I replied...
Hi
I'm afariad my records begin with the 70-71 Rothmans,
which states that Hibs manager was Willie MacFarlane, the
next season's book says it is Dave Ewing and the 72-73
edition has Eddie Turnbull.
Funnily enough the current Sky Sports edition (the new
sponsors of the same yearbook) only lists managers from
1975. At this moment I can't fill the 68-70 gap. Is there
more to this request than meets the eye ?
Bob
To which Scott wrote back...
Hi Bob,
Yes there is, we've been told and also argued against
that Sir Stanley Matthews managed hibs sometime
during this era, is this true or is it utter rubbish
?
Scott
I stalled...
Well that's a new one on me, I'm
going to have to find out myself now. I must admit I've
never heard of that before. I wonder why someone would
make it up. I suppose they did have George Best for a
while, so stranger things have happened...
Hi Bob,
I thought I would get you're mind working overtime on
this one.
Cheers.
Scott
Then it clicked, Hibernian
was the club the managed after he retired, but it was in
Malta, not Scotland. (Thanks to Norman for confirming
this for me).
Subject: Calum Best
Do you have any
recent photos of George Best son Calum? I lived in
San Jose when George and Angie lived there and Calum
was born and was just curious how he grew up?
It has been along time and I always admired George
and his family.
I just recently stumbled over your site and love it
(Thanks - Bob). It brings back a lot of memories of
the old days.
Keep up the good work.
An admirer of good soccer history.
jerij
Well no my site doesn't have any
pictures of Calum, though it would certainly raise the
female visitor hit rate if I did !!
For anyone looking for images of players on the Net, I
would recommend searching on Google's images search, at http://images.google.com. This certainly find a few pictures of
Calum.
Hi Bob
I actually found your site a while ago while
doing research for my own site
and have been meaning to write for a while.
I was 13 years old in 1970 and also collected
football sticker books. It was
part of my own evolution as a fully fledged footy
anorak. Although I didn't
know it at the time I was training to be a Programme
Editor by designing and
writing progs for my local Subbuteo League.
I have for many years (on and off) been
Programme Editor for the club I watched as a kid -
Mossley AFC, then in the Cheshire League, later
in the NPL and now set to return to the UniBond
League after 9 hellish years in the North West
Counties League.
My obsession with player histories is part of
my website -
www.mossleyweb.co.uk and I have a complete A-Z of
players who have appearead for Mossley since
the club turned pro in 1919, including many photos
of varying qualities. If you care to check it
out you will find several well known players
from 70-71 who also played for Mossley.
Jimmy Nicholson and Roy Ellam are two that
instantly spring to mind, but there are quite a
few others, including of course the Mossley
players from that season.
Also of the 'Next Generation' section I can
think of Mike Channon jr who played for Mossley
a couple of years back and now stars for Cheadle Town
in NWCL Division Two.
Anyway that's all for now, just thought it would be
nice to get in touch, you never know what info
we could share!
Good luck
John Cawthorne
www.mossleyweb.co.uk
I'll add Mick Channon junior at
the next Next Generation update, thanks. John's site is
really excellent take time to check it out.
If you've arrived at this
page from the May update link - also check out the
new additions to the April emails from Neil Meadows.
Further
April / May 2004 news can be found at ...
|
